Forums Restricted content WORKING FOR FREE – IS IT A GOOD THING?

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  • #3036
    Eloisa_NobleEloisa_Noble
    Moderator

      Starting this topic off with an intentionally provocative title. Let’s discuss working for free.

      Be it volunteer work, internships,  or work experience, when is working for free a good thing? Is it ever?

      Share your thoughts and experiences, good and bad. Let’s learn from and support each other. Please, be respectful of others views 😉

      • This topic was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Eloisa_NobleEloisa_Noble.
      #3047
      Eloisa_NobleEloisa_Noble
      Moderator

        I shall start us off with my own experience…very briefly.

        I got into the industry through a month-long work experience at the BBC. At the time, I knew I was interested in Factual media but was unsure if I wanted to work in TV. It was an amazing introduction to the industry and I was lucky enough to be placed on the One Show where I was given many mad opportunities. It was a fantastic learning experience and confirmed for me that it was a path I wanted to follow. I would highly recommend it…BUT not everyone can afford it!

        I was lucky enough to be living at home at the time, able to work part-time and be supported by my parents. This is not the case for everyone and a month is a long time to work for free and work hard, without additional support. I can see the effects of that now. The people who started out with me are some of the most fabulous people I know and are bloody good at their jobs and have worked hard to get to where they are. They deserve praise. But we all have something in common — our backgrounds. We are from similar socio-economic groups and academic backgrounds, and we are, mostly, white. And while still supporting people from all walks of life, the lack of diversity is something I’d like to see change.

        So my answer to the question is yes, free work can be a good thing. It’s a great introduction, a taster if you will but if not properly supported it can be very exclusive. How can we open up wildlife TV to those beyond the usual networks from the very start of the process?

        And it absolutely should be a learning experience for the person on the placement. If the organisation offering the placement doesn’t have the capacity to teach the person applying, perhaps they are too busy, then they should not be taking on work experience. If there is work to be done, they should employ someone to do the job…not end up relying on free labour. Is that a controversial opinion?

        I have also, in my time, done volunteer work. But this has been short term and usually, either when I felt extremely passionate about something or…more often when I felt that I could give my skills but could also learn something from the experience. For example, I wanted more self-shooting experience and it seemed a good way to do it was by working on small charity videos.

        I’d love to hear people’s thoughts on this and if anyone has any ideas or knows of initiatives that are making changes, share them here.

        • This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Eloisa_NobleEloisa_Noble.
        #3053
        Eloisa_NobleEloisa_Noble
        Moderator

          Regarding the recent volunteer job posting. I personally thought some excellent points were raised. To me, it sounded like a skilled role and also…asking for quite a lot of commitment.

          I would urge anyone interested to go in with eyes open and to ask for clarification on the role and also think very carefully about how you might benefit from it and manage your time.
          8+hrs in own time is quite a vague description, sounding like it might need to be done in addition to regular life/work. And the role described does sound like it might be much more time consuming than that. Plus, as pointed out in the whatsapp chat, 6-10weeks is a long time to be doing unpaid work. Do be aware that you might find this position taking up more time than you expected.

          The sentiment Emma shared, “know your worth”, is a good one to live by. It does sound like a good cause and a very interesting organisation but do be careful of giving away too much of yourselves. You deserve to and should be paid for the skills you have.

          #3056
          etyrrelletyrrell
          Participant

            Thabks Elaine, I’m all for mutual benefits, when free worker is gaining skills they don’t already have. That’s a mutual gain. But when they want free skilled work. That’s not ok.

            I also worked at bbc and a few companies as work experience and a part of the process.  But the working for free, skilled, thats a whole different ball.game.

            My studies, my sacrifices  my huge overdrafts and credit cards as a student, that’s not a gift for others to take advantage of.  It was for me to pursue my dreams and self fulfillment and goals.

            Thanks for starting this post  I agree with all you’ve said Eloise.

            #3057
            etyrrelletyrrell
            Participant

              <p style=”text-align: left;”>Also said company stated they need volunteers in order to reach a viable financial position. So instead,  an iou of some reward would have been appreciated. I found post loaded with assumptions  and if they do reach that financial viability it was free work that got them there which should be rewarded as and when they can.</p>
              I feel v strongly about it as you can tell 🙂  I see so many new to industry’s and not so new being taken for granted.

              #3058
              Eloisa_NobleEloisa_Noble
              Moderator

                Yes, some excellent thoughts. I definitely have concerns with those who are newer to the industry not knowing what is appropriate, which is one of the reasons I was keen to start the discussion. There is some info out there about these topics but it’s not always easy to find.

                It’s good to feel strongly about these matters! They are important and as you say, can bring stress to a world that is already pretty stressful as it is. I’m glad there is a place where we can discuss them.

                #3059
                Eloisa_NobleEloisa_Noble
                Moderator

                  On the entry level note, ITV just announced a production trainee scheme, which is great news

                  https://rts.org.uk/article/itv-studios-announces-new-production-trainee-scheme

                  And I’ve just seen that the RTS has a page about entry-level training too https://rts.org.uk/education-and-training-pages/entry-level-training

                  It would be great to see more Wildlife production companies taking part or perhaps even starting their own schemes

                  • This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Eloisa_NobleEloisa_Noble.
                  #3089
                  IdaIda
                  Moderator

                    Having been the person who originally shared the post, I have to say on reflection I totally agree with you about knowing our own worth, and the challenges presented by working for free. I think had the post just asked for a bit of ad-hoc help, it would have been OK – but to be asking for 8+ hours a week of someones time for no reward is a lot. I want to be able to help out good causes and charities – but my time is very precious to me.

                    I also agree with the Work Experience dilemma. I also feel very privileged to have been able to afford to do 3 weeks of unpaid work at the start of my career. I still struggled to get a first job after that, and was offered work experience at several production companies which I turned down – I really couldn’t afford to keep working for free. I think Work Experience opportunities are important, and I understand that companies don’t want to hire someone with literally no experience. However I do wonder whether the structure of work experience could be better – perhaps offering part time that can work around another job, or more guarantee that at the end of it if you have impressed, that there is going to be a job for you at that company. Or perhaps a minimum wage should be offered to just help open it up to more people.

                    #3105
                    Eloisa_NobleEloisa_Noble
                    Moderator

                      These are really good thoughts, Ida. I wonder if there are funds out there that support beginners in the industry as well. I think you can get grants from places like the Film and Television Charity…I’ll keep my eyes peeled for those.

                      And also thanks for sharing the original post. I can totally see how on first read it would sound like an intriguing offer and some people might still genuinely want to be involved…and I guess that’s their prerogative, though I hope they consider things very carefully. It’s an organisation with some big names behind it. It will be interesting to see how things unfold for them.

                      Also, it’s brought us all here to discuss some really important things!

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